Poor graphics performance with modern GPUs and iGPU. Is there any solution?

DEVO

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Hi.

I've tried every variation between Kernel and MESA updates available from this site via GearLock and can't get any combination that works with newer Intel iGPUs.

I've tried this with a UHD 630 and also a few of Nvidia cards, Maxwell & Turing.

Most combinations between the Intel iGPU and Nvidias will either not show the correct resolution, not recognise the GPU and/or completely fail to lock frequency. Any combinations that eventually get to the POS-DM desktop will suffer similar issues and the system will be very slow, even with data access as well as screen drawing.

The latest MESA 20 from this site does show the correct iGPU in system settings but the system is very slow and un-responsive. I suspect that while the latest MESA 20 version does indeed recognise the iGPU, it definitely is not controlling the functions of it. There's even less joy with the Nvidia GPUs.

If I use an older CPU/iGPU, a NUC 5i5RYH, there is a huge difference. Using this HD6000 based system I get the best graphics performance possible from any Android X64 derivative. There's actually only one other iGPU above this one that increases performances slightly, then everything else outside of the older HD based ones have the same issues as the UHD 630.

I've tried a lot of Android X86 derivatives, Phoenix, Remix, X86, Bliss, ROC etc. and unfortunately Dark Matter doesn't seem to offer any better GPU performance compared with all the rest, with respect to game play etc.

Plus, when using one of the more powerful Intel HD series iGPUs, I've never noticed any real performance gain beyond POS standard using a simple GFX tool. There just doesn't appear to be any appreciable differences across A-X86 once the base host system, CPU/iGPU/RAM etc. is at a certain level and most tweaks appear to be almost placebo.

There are definitely better UI experiences across the variations, POS-DM being a very nice one, but it almost feels that A-X86 is constantly struggling and fighting against the core Linux functions of Android with respect to the typical difference between ARM and X86. The proof of this is by simply switching to a smartphone with a good Snapdragon and seeing how that handles game play.

There are definitely better experiences to be had with Linux native on X86 with respect to GPU and system performance/utilisation. But the core Kernel for Android X86 feels like it maybe too old to fully take advantage of modern system hardware?

Has anyone, maybe the developers, had any better results than I've had?

Cheers,
Dave.
 

Night

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Thank you dave for taking your time & testing our Darkmatter OS. i've few questions for you hopefully you can answer them so that we can reach to a conclusion.

1> First check the Phoenix os Darkmatter system requirements & FAQ. Nvidia GPUs have poor support over linux & android x86 so check this link first.

2 > As you might know latest is not always the greatest going from kernel 4.19 to 5.x is a big jump & even official android x86 are not taking that risk they are still on kernel 4.10.110 LTS on their latest release simply because it's more stable.

3 > You can not judge the performance of Mesa with android games since games like pubg do weird things on app & server brings more lag with every new update. i suggest you to use 3Dmark app from playstore & do some benchmark on with each version of mesa & same kernel.

4 > Phoenix OS can't be compared it android x86 since it's based on a old android x86 7.1 build & things like google play services are never stable on it, and phoenix os team seems like almost dead since we're not getting any update since last year now it's just more VIP Service apps & Ads on update.

5 > And we can't leave it since there's no any better keymapper than phoenix os gamerhelper in the market currently.

6 > To runs games perfectly on phoenix os you need to do few other tweaks like Gltools, Gfx tool & gaming protocols for that you can watch our performance guide

7 > i've intel HD 620 GPU & i use kernel 4.19.10 a.k.a Benares 2.0 & mesa 20.0.4 which runs PUBG mobile & other Games perfectly. you just to test & find the best kernel & mesa for yourself & use 3Dmark not PUBG to test your iGPU.
 
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DEVO

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Hi Night.

Thank you for your detailed response, I'll try and answer your points as best as possible. Just bear in mind that I've been using many variations of Android on PC for a good few years now, starting with the early versions of Android X86. I'm also very familiar with PC hardware, I've built many hundreds of dedicated PCs for DAW and NLE work and have built many X86 machines for Android.


1> First check the Phoenix os Darkmatter system requirements & FAQ. Nvidia GPUs have poor support over linux & android x86 so check this link first.

I'm very familiar with the build specs. I've built a number of small dedicated X86/POS machines based around a number of Intel CPU/iGPUs combinations.

2 > As you might know latest is not always the greatest going from kernel 4.19 to 5.x is a big jump & even official android x86 are not taking that risk they are still on kernel 4.10.110 LTS on their latest release simply because it's more stable.

Yes, totally agree, latest isn't always best. Although, on my main X86/POS system with the HD6000, all of the various configurations of POS-DM work about as well as each other without any real performance differences. This is likely due to the CPU/iGPU being the hardware sweet spot for any Android X86 derivative based around kernek 14.xxxxx

3 > You can not judge the performance of Mesa with android games since games like pubg do weird things on app & server brings more lag with every new update. i suggest you to use 3Dmark app from playstore & do some benchmark on with each version of mesa & same kernel.

I'm not sure you are correct here. From what I understand, Mesa is directly responsible for the communication between the kernel and the GPU hardware and the specific hardware functions of the GPU, acceleration, rendering etc. It's almost like as if a PC had a generic GPU driver beyond simple VGA, that took account of hardware specific GPU functions for any manufacturer's GPU. On that basis, Mesa has a direct and very important part to play with the performance of Android games, such as PUBG. Mesa also directly has an effect on Vulkan, once again being directly relevant to Android gaming.

As for testing using 3Dmark. Synthetic testing will not tell if you've issues with your system/hardware. Most synthetics will directly task specific components, parts of a GPU as a for instance, which may not be representative of the entire system. If there are indeed other factors going on, such as host/server latency issues as you've suggested for game play. Then a synthetic test will never take that into account as it never deals with real world environments of the entire system. There are other issues that wont be picked upped by a synthetic test, that will only ever been seen and/or fixed within specifics of the systems hardware, again outside the realms of synthetic testing. This is why it's always best to test, games and game hardware in this instance, in a proper real world hardware environment and not use synthetic benchmarks such as 3Dmark.

4 > Phoenix OS can't be compared it android x86 since it's based on a old android x86 7.1 build & things like google play services are never stable on it, and phoenix os team seems like almost dead since we're not getting any update since last year now it's just more VIP Service apps & Ads on update.

Again, I'm not sure I can totally agree with what you've said. While you are right that Android X86 is now on later versions of Android. X86 is still essentially the same core Linux structure regardless of what version X86 is on. This is why comparing POS to X86 is fair. Plus, POS and POS-DM and anything else, Bliss, Remix etc. Are all derivatives of basically the same thing, X86.

Don't forget. The issue I'm talking about here, GPU performance, is still a problem with the latest beta 10 versions of X86. The underlying issue is the lack of GPU resource utilisation with anything outside of the HD series of Intel iGPUs. So basically. Anything from a basic POS install, through to POS-DM, to POS-ROC, Bliss etc. Wont utilise UHD/Iris Intel iGPUs or anything modern by AMD or Nvidia either.

5 > And we can't leave it since there's no any better keymapper than phoenix os gamerhelper in the market currently.

Totally understand. The only reason I got into POS was because of the keymapper. I used something way back on an early X86 and also on Remix but there's nothing that comes close to the keymapper in POS, especially for game controllers.

The only other thing I use is Panda Pro when using native Android on my phone. This can be very annoying though as you have to periodically re-activate it by using USB debugging and a script run from a PC, none of which is ideal for security or convenience and it's also a paid app. That said, once Panda is running it is awesome as it is essentially the same GameHelper keymapper from POS.

If it wasn't for the GameHelper in POS, I doubt there'd be anywhere near as much interest in Android on PC gaming. Even though my main PC system is based on an i9 with various high end Nvidia cards, which is for my video production work primarily but is an excellent PC gaming machine. I much prefer playing PUBG on Android, either native or via X86/POS and find the whole Android game thing to be much closer to a traditional games console experience. I'm a tradition console person, just a casual gamer, have never really taken to keyboard/mouse PC game play.

6 > To runs games perfectly on phoenix os you need to do few other tweaks like Gltools, Gfx tool & gaming protocols for that you can watch our performance guide

My experience is different. GLtools makes no difference what so ever with regard GPU performance on my machines. GFX tools make a huge difference because they're directly altering game parameters that don't typically exist in the game itself, PUBG as the obvious example. GFX tools don't do anything for the GPU. Also, GLtools doesn't make any difference to the vast amount of setups it's likely to go on as there is no way that it can communicate direct with any GPU that the core system does not recognise. You can't get GLtools to fake a UHD630 into being a Mali or Adreno GPU, because the core system doesn't even know what a UHD630 is.

You can see this for yourself if you go to system properties. If your'e using a GPU that Mesa doesn't understand, it will revert to a basic OpenGL, V2 I think? and it wont give the name of the GPU it'll just treat it as a generic interface. Even if you use Mesa 20xxxxx while it knows the name of the UHD630, it most certainly doesn't know what to do with it. During all my hardware system variations, no version of any kernel and Mesa combination has ever seen and worked properly with anything outside of the older Intel HD iGPUs, so no UHD/Iris.

Like I said, this is my experience when using a computer build that's perfect for any X86 alternative, POS or POS-DM and then comparing it to my i9 system with the Nvidias and the UHD630.

If you have a different experience of these things I'd be very interested as I'd love to get the performance out of my hardware that its capable of. If you could point me to some video examples, that would be great.

7 > i've intel HD 620 GPU & i use kernel 4.19.10 a.k.a Benares 2.0 & mesa 20.0.4 which runs PUBG mobile & other Games perfectly. you just to test & find the best kernel & mesa for yourself & use 3Dmark not PUBG to test your iGPU.

Yes, your HD620 is one of those iGPUs that will work really well, similar to my HD6000. Aside from any performance differences to your actual CPU, not the GPU, I'm not sure you'd really see any noticeable performance increase when changing your kernal or mesa versions from the stock POS POS/DM install.

Like I've already said. There are no major differences in graphics performance on my HD6000 system when I change Kernel and/or Mesa version. From what I've seen through all my variations on system hardware and OS variations, if you already have a good and compatible CPU/GPU, you will only need a GFX tool for any specific game to get great results. Most changes with Kernels etc. are environmental and UI ones, yes these do make a difference and sometimes big ones but these difference are usually at the system level that effect performance directly of the CPU and/or RAM and not necessarily GPU performance, especially when the GPU isn't recognised and its raw power isn't being used.

Here's an example of a good POS setup. It's an Intel 4790K i7 which has a HD 4600 iGPU. Although this CPU and iGPU are now quite old they are both very capable and totally compatible with anything based on X86. This example is PUBG running on a standard POS install using a GFX tool to up the game performance, for the best part this is all 60FPS 1080 with certain graphics lowered to maintain the frame rate.


Here's Panda Gamepad Pro on a Snapdgragon 855 Adrino 840.


Here's another example of the 855/840. This is obviously doesn't require a keymapper as COD is gamepad comaptible.


Here's PUBG again on the 855/840, again for an Android comparison vs X86. This is a pure picture test with everything set to max in GFX Tools, there's no Panda keymapper overlay on this one as the phone is in DEX mode with the HDMI output being capture 16:9 and not the aspect ratio of the phone's screen.


BTW. Any of these videos that show up as 4K weren't recorded at 4K. I capture 1080/60 and edit UHD/4K/60 then upload to YouTube at UHD/4K/60. This just basically forces YouTube to encode the HD streams using VP9 and not H.264. VP9 encodes at any given resolution, while typically being smaller than the H.264 versions, hold more resolution information.

Maybe you've already got this list, if not, this list of Intel iGPUs and the CPUs they've been used on may be of some use to you.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_graphics_processing_units

It maybe useful to start a thread or some kind of sticky post asking people to confirm their Intel iGPU version with whatever kernel/Mesa variation they're running on Dark Matter. This could be an absolutely amazing resource as there's nothing like it that I've found on the internet. It'd basically take all the guess work out of the whole Android gaming thing for GPUs and may well be a great resource for all those who contribute to Dark Matter.

If you feel that I've missed the point on anything that I've said, please let me know and supply a solution for me to test, as I'm always willing to try things out to get things better and to learn.

If you have any build that you would like me to test, please feel free to get in touch. I've got variations of every level of PC that's likely to be used for POS-DM, from low end to medium to high.

Cheers,
Dave.
 

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